Thursday, October 20, 2011

English IV Journal 2

Do Wollstonecraft's observation about the role of women hold true today, or are her arguments limited to the realities of the eighteenth century? Use her main points, details from the text, and your own observations to support your response.

25 comments:

  1. Mary Wollstonecraft's ideas still hold true today but in a more watered down form. Unfortunately it is true that most men do feel somewhat superior that women do to either physical strength or the fact that we are able to handle our emotions in a more "masculine" way, the only reason this is true is because of hormones in women are heightened and testosterone in women are lowered. Some ignorant dads may pass on to their son inadvertently that women have certain roles and men also have certain roles in society that we both need to follow, such as the popular sitcom leave it to beaver about a boy who is raised in a society where women know their place and are content in doing so.
    Even though we had come a long way from killing women from talking out of term it has been said that their is a glass ceiling holding women back from moving up in society. I mean she had a right to have such disdain for the men in her society, almost all of them were misogynistic chauvinistic pigs who in deed views women as shiny play things they could use as a receptacle for their child bearing. They had been kept out of office, denied high profile jobs, denied land without the accompaniment of a man.
    I have seen some of Wollstonecraft's main points in my everyday life, the ones about women lowering themselves to men to not seem threatening to their male peers and act overly nice or weak so their boyfriend can look like the hero in shining armor. The talk with a certain connotation in their voice that says, "I'm weak and need protecting", they choose not to answer a question they know that answer to so they will fly under the radar of suspicion. I am in the dark on why they would do this in this day and age, maybe its to have a better opportunity to get what they need or to not to be viewed as a stereotype or rumors spread about them.
    In conclusion even though things aren't as bad as they were in the eighteenth century women should still fight for more freedoms and for more equal opportunities such as men have.

    Sincerely Anonymous (Just kidding its Quinn La)

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  2. I think that Wollstonecraft’s idea still exists today but not as much as it used to. Women are standing up to men and getting their own space in the relationship and in society. But although they have some more freedom they still make themselves lower than men in some things. An example of this is some sports, some girls consider sports like boxing and basketball a girls sport. But there is a few of them that actually like these sports, but just as men women are criticized if they don’t like things girls do. Even in San Leandro high school girls make themselves lower than men. In the hallways girls are the ones that look for the boyfriends during lunch and they are the ones who try to be the most “girly” as possible. In the end some ideas are kept in society just as it was during the 18 century and some of them where ratified from them

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  3. I feel like Mary Wollstonecraft's ideas still hold true today. The fact that, decades ago, men are always higher than women no matter what and still exists today. As much as people hate the fact that majority of women would put themselves down just to get where they want to be. Men seem to be the strongest human being alive in this universe not because it's true, but because people in this world made it look like that. To many people, the definition of a women or a better way to say this is what people and men look in a women is to be very feminine, polite, self-concious on things that they do around people, and etc.

    I have seen many of Mary Wollstonecraft's main points going on around the world. How women would make themselves weak and vulnerable as what Wollstonecraft stated in her text; "Weak, artificial beings, raised above the common wants and affections of their race, in a premature unnatural manner, undermine the very foundation of virtue, and spread corruption through the whole mass of society!" just get the attention of men, boyfriends, and husbands. If a women love playing a sport that is so called for "men" only, people would start criticizing them as not being a girly women as how they are used to be like. If a women is smarter than a man or gotten a job that requires the brains and the strengths, they will be criticized to the max without a doubt.

    I even see the Mary Wollstonecraft's main points at my high school. Where girls would change their attitude and personalities completely so that they can get their crush attention or they would over dress just to go to school to attract a boy's attention. The reason that those girls do that because they have low self-esteem or how guys sees the "perfect girl" as in pretty face, fit body, skinny legs, and etc. How some girls would join a sport that requires a lot of strength like men do for a certain sport, some guys would criticize them and tell them how ungirly they are.

    As I said earlier that women would lower themselves down for a men just so that they can like/love them. Being overly nice, gentle, loving, sweet will gain that extra bonus point in a men for them to stick around a little longer. There's nothing wrong with a women being involved with tough sports, or love to learn about cars, or have the brains for a brighter future. Women are considered human beings too, like men. Just because it's two different gender, doesn't mean one is stronger than the other, it may be true that men are a little stronger on the strength, but the rest are all the same. There's nothing wrong for women to be strong and tough, maybe their reason is so that they can some self-defense against bad people. Sometimes I don't understand why some girls would do that, they should stand up for themselves and what they believe whether people will criticize you or not, it's not your problem to be worried about, it shouldn't even be something for you to be paying attention. Women will always keep lowering themselves for the society even though they have as much as equal opportunities as men does in anything. Nothing will change unless someone start to stand up for themselves.

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  4. Mark Joseph San JuanOctober 25, 2011 at 5:38 PM

    Mark Joseph San Juan:

    Wollstonecraft’s observations about the role of women still hold true today. We can see the discrimination and degradation of these women all around us. From the difference in compensation compared to a male worker to what women can and can’t do, women are restricted from showing superiority to their male counterpart. We might not recognize it, but this problem still continues to exist.

    Many years ago, women were seen as objects and not human beings. They were constantly disrespected, told what to do, and were often deemed to be incompetent. Unfortunately, we can see this horrible truth continue to thrive in the halls of San Leandro High. Girls pretend to be unintelligent to feed the male ego; pay close attention to guys’ perceptions on what their ideal female would be and try to be the spitting image of that perception; objectify themselves by dressing in scanty, wanton fashion – women have accepted their defeat.

    Today, in the workplace of a major company, women rarely hold jobs with a lot power and often have jobs as assistants or receptionists instead. In the rare occasion that a female were to have an equal title as a male counterpart, the female’s pay would be somewhat less than that of the male’s pay. For example, according to Mr. Lucero, his wife receives a slightly lower pay compared to that of her male co-workers and superiors. One’s gender shouldn’t have to be the basis for one’s capability to complete a job/task. When will the discrimination ever stop?

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  5. To Wollstonecraft's main point that to some of the men perspective about how women don't have that much rights, liberal, etc. In meaning that seeing men are the higher rank an overthrow of the women. It basically saying men are the top and women are at the bottom. As for today, yes it still hold the true about women and as to her during the 18th century women still have the feeling that they are also equivalent to men as well and also the social society within it too. Wollstonecraft see that men dominate women as plantocrats dominate slaves,tyrants and sensualists are in the right when they endeavour to keep women in the dark. Rights of humanity are violated by insisting on blind obedience. She see that men just treat women as an object for enjoyment, worker/labor whatever on the uses of women. It a fact that Wollstonecraft's saying about men are a use of them. She wanted to try and be even out with the men. In today society there are many feminist having an ongoing to why men are treating these women as a sexuality or anything. Women want to be just like any other not like widget. In here now like any other jobs women can't hold any hard working duties unlike men. Men see that women are just a useless fact that are very nagging about it not like men do. But some women really want to do it but as society today some worker won't allow women to do those duties that men do or a low pay compare to men. It is a fact that men see in society today with women they are still the same as back in the 18 century. A comparison to men and women are actually the same in society but men don't see them as in that way that how it is going on back to that century till now in the present.

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  6. Mary Wollstonecraft's observations and ideas both do and do not hold true today, but to a certain extent.

    Wollstonecraft believes that many women fall short and are inferior to men due to the custom of the society and beliefs at the time. This still does somewhat apply to today's modern society. There are many job opportunities in which women are unable to reach the level of success because they are believed to be "weak" or incapable of certain duties. For example, the chances of a woman getting a job in the construction industry versus a man is low because of the traditional view that women shouldn't be out working hard but rather doing something else, such as cooking, cleaning, or other household or feminine-like jobs.

    The view that often degrade women involuntarily is the exact same role and expectation to be fulfilled. As addressed by Wollstonecraft, women are viewed to be feminine and should only flaunt their beauty. Still to this day, women are still expected to fulfill their part in being what is considered "beautiful" in today's society like being skinny, fit, busty, and more outrageous ideas that come from man's perception of an ideal woman.

    There are many woman who have branched off off Wollstonecraft's idea of women becoming "masculine" and have truly advanced by gaining knowledge and an education and making something great of themselves than what they would be if they did not tune in to what she had been saying. But to this day, it is unfortunate that even with their step forward and advancement, they are forcibly stepped back because of a permanent traditional view of women in society created century's back because of men.

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  7. Mary Wollstonecraft's argument is still held true today. Women are still seen as the less dominant sex in our country which is unfortunate. They are seen as the "weaker" sex. People still imagine a family as the father being the man who works with the stay at home mother supporting the house and their kids. The problem with this is that time has changed and we have seen a lot more power and effort by women. Over the past few centuries, the fight for women's rights has increased greatly since Wollstonecraft's argument. They have fought for so long and hard that we almost seen a women become nominated for our last election which was a close vote. Women today are seen working in the government, owning their own businesses, enlisting and serving in the army to fight for our country, as well as being some of the smartest doctors and scientists of our time. They do all this while they still are able to be a mom for their kids by providing for them and the family. The do a lot for our country, but they don't seem to earn the respect or credit for their hardworking contribution to this country. Because women have so much opportunity now than they did before during Wollstonecraft's argument, they shouldn't be seen vulnerable and stuck in her century. Their innocence should be the same as everyone else's. They should end their manipulative ways in order to get what they desire now that times have changed. I see it around school when girls try to act "cute" to get a boy to do their work which has to stop. It is not what Wollstonecraft has fought for in her long and persuasive argument. Now is the time for them to pursue in becoming the best they possibly can.

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  8. Wollstonecraft's observation of women's roles in 18th century society still hold true in present times. Though women today are less oppressed than their 18th century counterparts, we still live in a generally male dominant society. This belief is reinforced by the media. The media often portrays women as subservient, and inferior to men, both physically and metally. Women's subservient roles in society were prevalent since ancient cultures, and have only recently begun to ascend.

    The media plays a huge part in women's ideal roles in society. The pictures, videos and news sends subliminal messages to young women all over the world, showing them that their appearance is most important. TV shows such as Bad Girls Club shows a negative image on women. Also, women also believe if they act stupid they will grab more attention and they believe that it is ''cute''.

    Today, women are oppressed at a level that doesn't have the attention of the general public. Even though women are no longer restricted by society to be strictly housekeepers, in joining the workforce, they are treated unfairly. Statistics show that women are paid less than men, assuming they have the same work.

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  9. Wollstonecraft's observation about the role of women doesn’t hold true today. His observation is more likely called sexism. Compared to the olden times, women today can do more things than men. They share same standing or status in the world with men. The characteristics of women being committed and responsible are what make them standout.
    We see men being superior whenever they succeed in business or their work. In these situations, we cannot see that they have people who supports and help them. Just like, for example, the business man succeeded with the help of his wife. Then, this may mean that his wife did more than what he did but the recognitions are for him. Just like in essays like this, the men as the main idea and the women as the supporting details. We all know that main ideas can stand alone but then, we you read it, are you sure you can be satisfied with just that idea? Of course not! That is why there are supporting details to make the idea meaningful. It’s like men need women.

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  10. Christine R.

    The main issue that Mary Wollstonecraft discusses in “The Vindication of the Rights of Women” is that the women of her time are prevented by men from getting a formal education. This main issue is now eradicated in the 21st century as women are now able to go to school and get educated in various subjects that will allow them to achieve their desired career. Even so, many of the arguments brought up by Wollstonecraft in her essay are still, sadly, evident in our present-day society.
    One of the first arguments that she tackles is that men “have been more anxious to make [women] alluring mistresses than affectionate wives and rational mothers” and that this led to women to become “anxious to inspire love” when they actually should be more ambitious with their aspirations and demand respect for their abilities. This is true because men and the mass media today dictate women on how a “lady” should look and behave which cause women to be self-cautious. Just around San Leandro, I encounter many guys that only base their judgment of a girl’s beauty through her physical appearance and some girls are teased or are talked badly behind their back because they deemed as ugly. There are also many guys that ask girls out, even though they know that their relationship will last, just for the sake of being able to say that they have a girlfriend. They only see the girls as accessories and to help increase their “reputation”.
    Wollstonecraft also states that men put themselves in a pedestal over women. Wollstonecraft refers to women as “subordinate”, “inferior”, “frivolous sex”, “weaker vessel”, and “rational creatures”. She acknowledges the fact that women are inferior to men physically but she doesn’t accept the fact that men also think that they are also better than women in other aspects of life. Many executive positions in large corporations are taken up by males. In rare cases, where a woman is lucky to get a high-standing position, they are discriminated against by men (and even women!) in the same field. Another argument that is put into light is how men get intimidated by educated and outspoken members of the opposite sex and they see educated women as “masculine”. I can see this today as some guys go for the not-so-smart girl to make themselves feel and look better in the eyes of others. Women nowadays are more open towards masculine activities such as sports, cars, and jobs that require hard labor. The reaction from men to this is mixed; some find it attractive while others are intimidated by it.
    Lastly, Wollstonecraft doesn’t ignore the fact that women are also partially at fault for how society makes them out to be. Women sell themselves short and are afraid to step out of their comfort zone, which is also the zone that men placed them in. Women also use their cunning instead of their knowledge to get what they want. Men told women what is ideal for so many years that the women gradually accepted and believed that they are really inferior to men. Today, girls are mostly concerned about being skinny, having perfect complexion, and wearing designer clothing to impress their men when they should be doing it for their own self satisfaction instead. I also see teenage girls that are in actuality very smart and dignified around people but they act dumb, clumsy, immature, and incapable of doing a simple task when around a guy that they like.
    One would think that, after so many years of obvious bias against women, women would already have stood up for themselves instead of conforming to mean’s ideals but that is obviously not the case until today.

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  11. Deik J.
    Wollstonecraft’s observation about the role of women still hold true today but only on certain aspects of life. For centuries men have been seen as superior life form to women but why the world may never know. Only some of her arguments are relevant this day and age because women have been fighting for their rights .For example women were not allowed to vote until the 19th amendment was ratified .No matter what women do they will never be seen as equals because of the mentality of most men .Women are seen as insignificant tools that men use for pleasure and reproduction. Wollstonecraft’s observations on roles of women don’t apply to apply women of America as much as they do in developing countries or any other country for that matter. In countries like Arabia women don’t have rights at all they can be abused by men and nothing will happen to him.

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  12. I think Wollstonecraft’s observation are half and half because sexism plays a big role and women are still seen as the less dominant sex in our country which is unfortunate. Mary feels that everything should be all about women and that they are better than man. in todays time though women are seen as equals. its not more about women or men. Though women today are less of a burden than how they were back in 18th century , i kinda still think we do live in a male dominant society. But since Wollstonecraft's argument the fight for womens rights has increased greatly. Ive seen women lower them selves or act very foolish just for a guy and its dumb,Women will always keep lowering themselves for society and do what others think even though they have as much as equal opportunities as men does in anything.

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  13. Chun
    I don't think Wollstonecraft's observation hold true anymore in today's society. Women today has a lot more opportunities than they had back then: They have the same rights as men, they can have the same jobs as men, and they have the equal amount of responsibilities as men. Two factors that stopped women from becoming fully equal to men are male-dominant countries and Christianity. If female tries to rise up in male-dominant countries, they would get beat or even killed by the males; therefore, they are to be under the men's rule forever. Christianity also prevent women from becoming exactly equal to men. They could only be slightly below men, for example: only men could preach and women can only teach. This goes way back when Eve was lured by the snake to eat the forbidden fruit and they still hold that tale against women.

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  14. As of today woman are becoming more dominant in life today. You do see more woman as senators and working in big owned businesses, as athletes, slowly but surely woman can take over the world. In reality, men are the ones people choose first for our government. Woman is limited to show our strength and physical ability to the greatest extent. Woman today are seen, as less equal to woman does not mean we do not have to same rights. Lately women have been lowering themselves to get attention from men, which is totally negative on our part.

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  15. Sharissa Wright:

    Wollstonecraft’s observation today still holds true today. I believe her opinion is in more affect now then it has ever been to a cretin extent. Fortunately women know days have more ability and voice in this century in comparison to the 18th century. Know that women hold such powerful positions that are perceived as a “man’s job”, such as being in the arm or in politics, her believes have become more and more lucid into the eyes of society. For example when she talks about men being afraid about women with knowledge, which in an away is true today. Women make themselves appear superior to show they are a threat to make themselves equal or even better than men are. For example, a women running for president would have to show signs of toughness or “masculinity” to make themselves seem more of a better candidate then a male candidate.

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  17. Wollstonecraft’s observations about the role of women still hold true today. Although that the expectations and limitations are not clearly shown as they were in the past, these things are still surreptitiously omnipresent. Moreover, it is something that most people fail to notice in today’s society, but still applies nonetheless.

    In the old times women were simply manufactured to meet the high standards of the factory owners called men. From an early age they were shaped into what would be acceptable to a future husband. This was to never speak out against them, cook and clean, and many other expectations they had to live by. A single woman would find it nearly impossible to legitimately support herself without the financial support of a husband. Although I have never witnessed things quite like this in my own area, I’ve seen things very similar to it.

    I often see portrayals of Wollstonecraft’s observations at San Leandro High School. As I walk down the hallways I frequently see girls who try to sound cute in front of guys. When they speak it sounds like they are purposely trying to sound unintelligent. These are the opposites of what Wollstonecraft wanted women to be. I find it shameful that someone would have to degrade the intellectual capabilities to simply attract a boy. I believe that in a world controlled by men, it is extremely difficult to diminish the social standards of what a woman “should be.” This is something that I think will never go away.

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  18. The tenets of Wolstonecraft’s A Vindication of the Rights of Women still hold true in modern day society. The key components of Wolstonecraft’s main points are that she believes that women are denied the right to an education, and that they are unjustly viewed in society as ornaments and property of the men they are married to. Unfortunately these aspects of Wolstonecraft’s beliefs are prevalent in the hallways of San Leandro High School.
    Everyday, a woman is bombarded by expectations of other people. Women try to live up to the high standards of a male’s “perfect girl”. An average teenage girl just wants to be accepted by their peers and especially wants attention from the opposite sex. Sadly, some believe that acting ignorant and being an airhead will be appealing to males. In the Vindication of the Rights of Women, Wolstonecraft argues that women are never seen as equals to their husbands, and are just primarily used to be “objects of amusement” for a man.
    Modern society and media definitely affects a woman’s perception of being perfect. Girls try to look like the women on America’s Next Top Model and be like famous singers like Katy Perry. And what is the use of models and performers? They are primarily used for entertainment and amusement. Women should not stoop down to the standards of males, rather they should live up to their own personal standards.

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  19. Stephaney Vargas
    I believe that the Wollstonecraft’s idea still exist today, but is not used that often. The expectations and limitations are yet not used as how she wanted in the eighteenth century. Still today we have women still fighting for equal rights if has to do with sports, school, and work, even to be president. I believe men today still have doubts about women and expect them to be lower than them. I believe women still fear to be able to stand up for themselves because they’re afraid that they will get hurt “emotionally”. Having the fear of getting put down show men that they’re week and give them the idea that they’re not up for what they’re trying to apply themselves for. As for San Leandro High you see girls who are intimidated to confront boys, and the only way to get their attention is by the looks that they have. A women should get a guys attention by just looks but by the heart and the knowledge she carries.

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  20. Though there has been many improvements in the roll of women in society today, alot of what wollstonecrafts said is unfornatlefy true. Today with the roll of women set to a high in poltics,the general society has been led to the view of women being nothing more than trinkets of admirations rather then respected figures in society.Us as women are given expectations of what to look like and also what to act like. The perfect weight,the cutest styles and an attitude to accept the limitations given to us by man.We start to care more about what people think about us,rathen then our success.In our socities today music and tv have also had a big impact on the perspective of a female, we are given adverse names that that reflect us as "female dogs" and other infamous names. This is seen through music tv,even in families.Wollstaonecraft mentions the roll given to women in homes,for them to be the cook and or cleaners.We should be equal to the positions given to men.And women should try to focus more on success rather then their looks and the thoughts of others.

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  21. Mary Wollstonecraft’s observation about the role of women still hold true today to a certain extent. Women have a lot more rights than they did in the 18th century. They have the right to vote now and they have more jobs. Women aren’t expected to just stay home and be a house wife anymore. I believe that the reason for that isn’t fully due to the fact that they have more rights, but because they are needed to go work to not only boost the economy, but to bring more income to the family. Wollstonecraft’s observations cans still be seen in the business world. Women hardly ever have high ranking jobs. Out of 500 large businesses, only 3 of the CEOs are women. Her observations can also be seen in social life. Some girls try to dumb themselves down to look cute. Women are hardly ever involved in politics and even if they are, most likely, they are not well known.

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  22. Jerrold Gonzales

    In my opinion, Wollstonecraft's observation about the role of women are still held upon on till this day forward. Women now have the full right to vote and are given a much more larger choice of labor. Women can now have the same jobs that men have. Now it's a choice to be a house wife or stay at home mom. To me, I do feel like men have the more upper hand and are more superior compared to women. Do not get my wrong though, I also think that women have it the hardest. They have to go through a menstruation cycle and possibly sometimes pregnancy. What's good about today's world is that women are extremely much more respected that before. For some men, women make the world go round. A part of me can agree because women should be praised more than men because we wouldn't be here if it were not for our mothers. I would never ever disrespect my mother. My mother means the absolute world to me and I always treat her with the up most respect. Women deserve the up most respect especially from us men. Disrespecting another man is not as bad as disrespecting a women or even worse, someone's mother.

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  23. First of all women should be treated with more respect at this very day. Second of all what wollstencraft say is not entirely true to this day because think about it other countries women cant really do much like drive a car, get a job, go party with their friends. no they cannot because they will get punished severely compared to america women have many rights and freedom. till this day women had became more intelligent by reading, writing and learning. like wolstencraft said men sees women just for pleasure if you know what i mean but women broke that stereo type a long time ago so by definition women are treated better today compared to the 18th century.

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  24. Jessica Van Zile
    I believe Wollstonecraft’s ideas of how women are act and how they are treated is still sometimes true to today. It all depends on how you grow up to say if you are like the women she is talking about or if you are a modern day women who knows what they want and is treated with dignity and respect. Most likely if you grew up in a traditional household where the man is the head of the house hold, and what he says goes, then you are the kind of girl that is in her story. What I mean by the kind of girl that is in her story is the fact that you may be smart but you don’t ever get to apply your knowledge to anything because you are too busy cooking and cleaning for the “man of the house”. But this isn’t the only way you could act like these girls that don’t apply their knowledge. For example in school sometime girls play dumb so they could get guys attention. This isn’t good by any means, these girls need to stay strong, get an education and worry about those things later in life. I have only talked about the girls who don’t treat their selves with respect. There are also plenty of women out there who are strong respectable people who are completely capable of doing any job a man can do. However, they don’t always get the opportunity. Although things have majorly changed for women in society there is still a double standard and as much as none of us want to admit it men usually get the first hand in things like jobs. For example if there was one spot open for a construction job, the man would most likely get it over the women even if she had more experience. This is a shame and I am proud of how far women have come in society but we still need to develop our equilality needs.

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  25. Wollstonecraft's observation about women's role in society holds true today to a certain extent. In "The Vindication of the Rights of Women," she explains how in her time, women were regarded as only materialistic objects of alluring beauty to the supposedly "superior" man; women are only useful for their looks to entertain the man. However, in most of today's society, this no longer holds true. Most people in the U.S. seem to respect women more equally socially and morally. They usually don't judge the woman for being sensible and smart or view them as inferiority complexes.
    However, Wollstonecraft's observation that women who lack proper education can never amount to anything that's beneficial and worthwhile for themselves still holds true today. Today, although more and more women are given equal education as men, if they are not permitted to obtain their education whilst in a very traditional environment, they'll usually become housewives catering only to the needs of the man and the children but never really for themselves.
    However, Wollstonecarft's observation of increasing jobs don't bold well with reality. For instance, only a marginal percentage of women in the U.S. are working high-ranking positions as leaders in the industry.
    Therefore, there are still improvements to be made in order to attain total equality for both sexes.

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